Preparing for my first build

[ajf412]

Hello Obscurus Crusade!  For years now, I've been pondering building my own space marine armor, and have dabbled a little bit by building animatronic hands, grabbing up pieces that I find here and there that are of interest (like a terminator mask for a possible chaplain helm).  I tried a PVC endoskeleton that I was going to foam and form, then bondo the outside, but it's just not working out the way that I want it to.

Then I stumbled on to Obscurus Crusade, and discovered Pepakura.  I've watched video after video on Pepakura tutorials and examples on YouTube.  So I am thinking of going the route of:  printing, cutting, folding, gluing, resin, fiberglass interior, bondoglass exterior, bondo filler, prime, paint, detail.  But at this point, there is so much work put into the armor, that if something broke, I would be devastated.  Then I stumbled on to people making molds, and it caught my attention.

So really, my questions at this point are:
1.  How strong are the Pep/Bondo armors?  Do I really need to worry about them breaking?
2.  From what I can gather about mold/cast, you just roll rondo/bondo/glass around in the mold for a few layers?  What other materials can be/are used?
3.  Is the vacuum forming to create pieces from the plastic, or to build molds out of plastic?  Or both?

[Ral Partha]

1.  How strong are the Pep/Bondo armors?  Do I really need to worry about them breaking?

Before I answer this question, let me clarify a couple of things. One: to strengthen a pep piece, a combination of fiberglass and resin are used. Two: bondo is used primarily for smoothing surfaces and detailing a piece. However, bondo can also be used for strengthening, which I will get into more detail in Question #2. If you use fiberglass and resin, your pep piece is going to be very strong. So strong that you can actually sit on and not damage it.

However, there are a few downsides to using fiberglass and resin. For one thing, resin releases noxious fumes, which means that not only that you can only use it outdoors but that you have to wear a respirator with organic gas filters (the fumes are carcinogenic). Another is that this combination plus bondo makes the costume very heavy.

Some people have also used urethane plastic instead of fiberglass and resin. I haven't used this method but I can see why a lot of people prefer this. It's a lot simpler than the fiberglass/resin combo and less noxious fumes.

2.  From what I can gather about mold/cast, you just roll rondo/bondo/glass around in the mold for a few layers?  What other materials can be/are used?

You seem to be confusing two different processes here. Some people use rondo (resin + bondo) to strengthen an armor piece by slushing the inside part with this mixture, sometimes with a layer of fiberglass before doing it. When people talk about molding and casting, they're talking about creating copies of the original armor piece. It starts by creating a silicone mold around the piece. After removing the piece, you get a hollowed out silicone shell and you pour urethane plastic mixture (e.g., SmoothCast 320) inside and slush it (also called manual rotocasting). Once this plastic cures, the mold can be peeled away and voila, you have an exact copy of the armor piece.

This is obviously an over-simplified version of the actual molding and casting steps but you get the gist.

3.  Is the vacuum forming to create pieces from the plastic, or to build molds out of plastic?  Or both?

It's the former.

[ajf412]

You seem to be confusing two different processes here... you pour urethane plastic mixture (e.g., SmoothCast 320) inside and slush it (also called manual rotocasting).

This is obviously an over-simplified version of the actual molding and casting steps but you get the gist.

I was oversimplifying it as well.  I didn't feel like writing out the entire process, so I jammed the rondo/bondo/glass together, and just said layers, plural.  That's what I found on another site.  Smooth-Cast 320 answers the question nicely, and alleviates the fears I had thinking of using bondo and its mixtures, as the cast.  lol

Thank you very much for the info!  I'll try making a helmet and see how heavy it is.  If it's too heavy, perhaps I'll make molds, so I can make lighter pieces, and replace them as needed if they break.

[ajf412]

I have poster board cut down to 8.5x11.  Do you think this will work just as well as card stock?  I will at least use it to build my first pep helmet just to see how it turns out.

[cilegray]

For having done bodywork on cars in the past, and having built a foamy marine (935 build)... I would definitely get informed on the pros and cons of using both build methods before committing.

IMHO, a foam build will look just as good when done properly, for half the hassle and cost.

[ajf412]

For having done bodywork on cars in the past, and having built a foamy marine (935 build)... I would definitely get informed on the pros and cons of using both build methods before committing.

IMHO, a foam build will look just as good when done properly, for half the hassle and cost.

Very true.  I do want to try and build the helmet though, just to see what I think of the pep.  Perhaps I'll build a foam helmet afterwards, and compare the two builds, and decide what I like better.  I think that might be the way to go.  I'm just worried about the edges showing through in the foam build.

[cilegray]

Check out my build thread; has alot of info and pictures that might convince you otherwise about seams in foam.

[ajf412]

I've looked at your build some already.  (I don't like the inquisition)    But when it comes to foam builds, I worry about it's ruggedness.

I wanted to point out that he would go crazy/die of old age if he was thinking of producing multiple foam suits. The amnt of work for say, a shoulder pad, was enough to make me grimace at the thought of having to do it all over a second time. I can't even fathom building another full suit...      .... for now

I was watching/looking at something, that somebody dropped their helmet, and it cracked and messed up their paint when it hit the floor on their foam suit.  I wanted to go with something that could take some wear and tear and shrug it off, or be able to be easily reproduced.  I think I lean more towards the wear and tear stuff though.  I want something that once I build it, it will last a decade.  If I want to build bucs, then it will make bucs.  Foam seems easier, and lighter, but not as sturdy.

[ajf412]

Well, poster board doesn't fit through the printer.  Perhaps I'll try to print on regular paper and trace onto the poster board.  I figured this would be the case, but thought I'd give it a try just in case it did somehow work.

[Gunhead]

I don't like the inquisition

Heresy!

Let me tell you, Bondo will make for a hard surface, but it will still chip and crack if you drop it. Bondo is essentially polyester resin mixed with cornstarch. Fiberglass is resin mixed with glass fiber (woven in a mat or as loose strands). It is the glass fiber that gives it the torsional strength when it flexes (such as on impact). You have already likely read most of the WIPs and seen what folks are doing. Rather than focus on the materials, I would like to suggest that perhaps you might want to consider if you are producing a suit for just you, or if you are making several. If the former, making a mold is really more work than it is worth. TRUST ME!! LOL! In which case I would go with a foam build. Peping and fiberglassing/bondoing a suit to wear would be extremely heavy relatively speaking, I think. If you want to make multiples by casting, using various techniques like I am doing, then what you suggest is really the way to go. Does this help at all?

Editted: for spelling errors

[ajf412]

I've done some car bodywork in the past.  I rebuilt a '73 Super Beetle from the ground up about 10 years ago.  I just want to make sure that building it is worth my time and effort.

But perhaps I ought to be thinking more about what ceramite would look like, and aim for that, rather than worry about durability....

I also have little children and an excitable pitbull.  So that's yet another reason why I worry so much about durability.

I think I will have to build a bondo model, and build a foam model, and see which one I prefer.

in other matters:  Where did you get your translation of Exodus 18:22?  It's neither Vulgate nor Septuagint.  Is it your native language?  Google tries to say it's Latin, but can only translate "ne".

[Gunhead]

Its High Gothic. 

[ajf412]

I need to ask you where you got your translation from.  My Wulfila Gothic doesn't have Exodus.  =\

[seraphic machine]

Maybe make a smaller item out of all the possible materials with various techniques and see which you like most? Something really small?

OFF: oh, how I hate GW for butchering Latin!

[Gunhead]

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/High_Gothic